Curse

DarkSpirit · Aug 18, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

primary rit cant use discord and needs like 3 skills (including elite) to have decent e-management.

4 discord necros should be enough. You can replace the elite.

Quote:

I dont know If you read my post cause it seems you didnt... primary monk? wtf are you talking about?

Nevermind, thought I saw a monk primary. Even so, his skills are wierd, an anti-shout skill and 2 enchant removal? Are there no better skills under curse?

upier · Aug 18, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Bloodsong is there just cause it's a spirit, I don't care what it does. It's cheap, lasts long and has a quick recharge. Painful bond is an aoe hex and I don't expect it to do more. You may think it's half-assed but I think it's better than spreading attributes for a better hex, and I don't see any more chanelling skills that I need.

Why not just run something like Shadow Of Fear/Reckless on the Divert necro (dump Envenom/Vocal) and run AR (since you have ways of creating Cracked) on the ritu instead of Painful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

I have 4 copies of DPS cause it's the best hard res, period. And I don't expect many deaths but I want every one of them to be able to res. Those 2 res signets are there cause I don't want to overload them with skills they don't really need, so signets are fine.

FomF on the channeling dude.
Considering you are using necros - the e-gain from DPS is something that should be tested. Since the guys should be gaining back huge amount of energy as soon as they are rezzed - due to SR - it might be interesting to test if they actually need the huge e-gain from DPS or could they manage just fine with FomF.
Also - I don't see the point of rez siggies. Either a real rez or no rez - it just doesn't make sense otherwise, especially since the guys are monkies secondary already. A hard rez and disable it. If you need it.
Otherwise - something better.

Washi · Aug 18, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

FomF on the channeling dude.
Considering you are using necros - the e-gain from DPS is something that should be tested. Since the guys should be gaining back huge amount of energy as soon as they are rezzed - due to SR - it might be interesting to test if they actually need the huge e-gain from DPS or could they manage just fine with FomF.

It's not the energy, I'm rather concerned about the health loss. What if they start rezing in the middle of rage titans unleashing hell? Sounds like 2 more dead bodies to me. But I might test it, and see how it looks like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Also - I don't see the point of rez siggies. Either a real rez or no rez - it just doesn't make sense otherwise, especially since the guys are monkies secondary already. A hard rez and disable it. If you need it.
Otherwise - something better.

Well, tell me what skills are better? Because I really dont see anything useful enough to put there. And I don't want it to be energy intensive.

EDIT:
About the rit, this is what I think he should look like:

[build prof=Rt pve name="Channel Rit" box channel=12+1+1 spawn=11+1 resto=6][Offering of Spirit][Spirit Siphon][Essence Strike][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Warmonger's Weapon][Bloodsong][flesh of my flesh][/build]

Do you think it will actually add more than a discord/channel necro?

Tyla · Aug 18, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

I intendedly put Death Nova on OTHER char than MM. If you read my OP you will know why. I was considering some defensive weapon spells but I hate when heros overwrite my splinter when I get hit for like 10 damage.

Ah, well thanks for notifying me of that. Sometimes I prefer just scimming past the info and look at the spammable domage!

As for heroes overwriting Splinter Weapon, I thought they fixed that?

Paul Dawg · Aug 18, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I agree with Washi about [death pact signet]. I've seen too many heroes get wasted right after casting [flesh of my flesh] because of the health sacrifice. And another thing to consider: when you have a death chain caused by [death pact signet], the deaths don't cause DP. That can be a huge advantage in certain situations.

As for someone's idea about bringing a primary Rit hero on a Discord team...do we really need to explain why that's a horrible idea?

DarkSpirit · Aug 18, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

As for someone's idea about bringing a primary Rit hero on a Discord team...do we really need to explain why that's a horrible idea?

A primary rit is not a horrible idea, it is workable for the returns of much higher damage from Splinter and AR. Shaz posted a 6-heroes FoW build with a primary rit. Search for yourself. Since Washi likes to make one of his heroes to be channeling-based, he can also try something similar.

On the other hand, I am going to leave channeling and Splinter Weapon only as a variant for my version of 6-heroes Discord mainly because I can only have a max of 2 physical characters in the team with my build since all my 6 heroes are casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

I agree with Washi about [death pact signet]. I've seen too many heroes get wasted right after casting [flesh of my flesh] because of the health sacrifice. And another thing to consider: when you have a death chain caused by [death pact signet], the deaths don't cause DP. That can be a huge advantage in certain situations.

Sure if you like to punish the stronger heroes and cause them to die for another that already has high DP.

daze · Aug 19, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

[build prof=N/Mo pve name="MM" box death=12+1+3 soul=10+1 heal=8][Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Putrid Bile][Signet of Lost Souls][Dwaynas sorrow][cure hex][resurrection signet][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo pve name="Divert" box soul=10+1+1 prot=12 curse=8][Divert hexes][aegis][protective spirit][Signet of Lost Souls][vocal minority][rip enchantment][envenom enchantments][resurrection signet][/build]

Just curious, since those 2 are monk secondary, why the res sig instead of Hard res like[resurrect] or [resurrection chant]

Washi · Aug 19, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Just curious, since those 2 are monk secondary, why the res sig instead of Hard res like[resurrect] or [resurrection chant]

Resurrect is THE worst res in game and Chant has a very long casting time. If I wanted monk hard res I would take [restore life] or [vengeance] but I dont.

As I mentioned before, I don't need any more reses and signets dont use energy and activate fast.
If I find a skill I want to put there, I will but it won't be a res.

DarkSpirit · Aug 19, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Resurrect is THE worst res in game and Chant has a very long casting time. If I wanted monk hard res I would take [restore life] or [vengeance] but I dont.

Then replace them with other skills. Res sigs are not good either.

Paul Dawg · Aug 19, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Put it this way. The purpose of a discord team ... is to spam [discord]. And a primary rit can't do that. So OK, you might say you're willing to part with one discord in order to have a super channeler, but if you want [jagged bones] on the MM, that means you're going to have to part with TWO Discords. Pretty soon you don't have a discord team.

Besides, we're not talking about "much higher damage" from splinter weapon. The difference between the 12 spec in channeling that you could get with an N/Rt and the 14 spec in channeling that you'd have with your primary Rit amounts to 6 points per hit (41 vs. 47). That's really not a major difference. (And yes, you can get 12 spec in channeling with a discord N/Rt because even at 9+1 spec in death magic, discord still does tremendous damage.) The benefits of spawning power don't really make much of a difference either, because splinter weapon has a 5-second recharge and lasts twenty seconds anyway.

The bottom line is: Are you willing to part with a discord necro in order to squeeze out 47 points of damage for each splinter weapon hit instead of 41? I wouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

A primary rit is not a horrible idea, it is workable for the returns of much higher damage from Splinter and AR. Shaz posted a 6-heroes FoW build with a primary rit. Search for yourself. Since Washi likes to make one of his heroes to be channeling-based, he can also try something similar.

Washi · Aug 19, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Then replace them with other skills. Res sigs are not good either.

Oh god I'm totally sick of you dude. In every thread you pretend you're the smartest on earth but your "advices" are useless.

I said few posts earlier, If you think there is a skill worth the spot tell me. But nooo you're only able to give half-assed responses like "other skills" or this and that is no good.

I prefer my heroes to have less skills and use them than pack them with something they dont need just cause there's a free spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

The bottom line is: Are you willing to part with a discord necro in order to squeeze out 47 points of damage for each splinter weapon hit instead of 41? I wouldn't.

I think the point is one additional attack but I still think it;s not worth it.

DarkSpirit · Aug 19, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Put it this way. The purpose of a discord team ... is to spam [discord]. And a primary rit can't do that. So OK, you might say you're willing to part with one discord in order to have a super channeler, but if you want [jagged bones] on the MM, that means you're going to have to part with TWO Discords. Pretty soon you don't have a discord team.

Then replace the Jagged bones with Discord.

Quote:

Besides, we're not talking about "much higher damage" from splinter weapon. The difference between the 12 spec in channeling that you could get with an N/Rt and the 14 spec in channeling that you'd have with your primary Rit amounts to 6 points per hit (41 vs. 47). That's really not a major difference. (And yes, you can get 12 spec in channeling with a discord N/Rt because even at 9+1 spec in death magic, discord still does tremendous damage.) The benefits of spawning power don't really make much of a difference either, because splinter weapon has a 5-second recharge and lasts twenty seconds anyway.

The bottom line is: Are you willing to part with a discord necro in order to squeeze out 47 points of damage for each splinter weapon hit instead of 41? I wouldn't.

You did not take into account the number of attacks and multiply that across the damage figures. It is between 47 damage across 5 attacks versus 41 damage across 4 attacks at level 12 channeling up to 3 adjacent foes. That is a difference of (47*5*3)-(41*4*3) = 213 armor ignoring damage between level 12 and level 14.

On top of that, if you read his build, he only speced 10 to channeling, not 12, which is only 35 damage over 4 attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Oh god I'm totally sick of you dude. In every thread you pretend you're the smartest on earth but your "advices" are useless.

I said few posts earlier, If you think there is a skill worth the spot tell me. But nooo you're only able to give half-assed responses like "other skills" or this and that is no good.

I prefer my heroes to have less skills and use them than pack them with something they dont need just cause there's a free spot.

If you insist on posting crappy builds and defending your res sigs to the bitter end, even though many of us have complained about them, then dont waste our time asking for feedback. If you read, we have already made suggestions on what to replace them with, but you rejected all of them.

Paul Dawg · Aug 19, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

That's 213 extra damage spread out over three foes IF there are three foes adjacent for all five attacks. If you're facing something like mountain trolls, OK, they'll hang around and get smashed. Most other foes start to kite. Maybe one time in ten all my splinter weapon attacks hit as many as three foes.

Also, those five attacks, assuming the weapon is a sword, will take 6.67 seconds. In that amount of time, a discord necro with only 9+1 spec in death magic will be able to cast discord three times, doing 249 points of damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You did not take into account the number of attacks and multiply that across the damage figures. It is between 47 damage across 5 attacks versus 41 damage across 4 attacks at level 12 channeling up to 3 adjacent foes. That is a difference of (47*5*3)-(41*4*3) = 213 armor ignoring damage between level 12 and level 14.

Washi · Aug 19, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If you insist on posting crappy builds and defending your res sigs to the bitter end, even though many of us have complained about them, then dont waste our time asking for feedback. If you read, we have already made suggestions on what to replace them with, but you rejected all of them.

oh right, my builds are crappy... I want to see your uber MOP fiends rape DoA... rofl.

DarkSpirit · Aug 19, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Also, those five attacks, assuming the weapon is a sword, will take 6.67 seconds. In that amount of time, a discord necro with only 9+1 spec in death magic will be able to cast discord three times, doing 249 points of damage.

Don't forget the 1s casting time of Discord, at max you can only cast about 2 times during that time (1s cast time + 2s recharge), so it is only 83*2 = 166. Tank & Spank ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

oh right, my builds are crappy... I want to see your uber MOP fiends rape DoA... rofl.

And if you have ever been there, you would know that 3-heroes builds are not designed for DoA.

MegaVolti · Aug 19, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I totally don't get what's so great about discord. 100 single target damage with lots of conditions to fulfill?
Lightning hammer / lightning orb + air / elemental attunement can do the same without any requirements (conditions, hex), perfectly spammable, basically no mana cost (double attunement) and even at higher damage.

What's the point of discord?

Syron · Aug 19, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

armor ignoring; better attribute line; better energy-management

Darkside · Aug 19, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syron

armor ignoring; better attribute line; better energy-management

Hit the nail on the button... because armor ignoring is the easiest way to bring down monsters in HM that have stupid high armor ratings.

daze · Aug 20, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Resurrect is THE worst res in game and Chant has a very long casting time. If I wanted monk hard res I would take [restore life] or [vengeance] but I dont.

As I mentioned before, I don't need any more reses and signets dont use energy and activate fast.
If I find a skill I want to put there, I will but it won't be a res.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation. sorry if you already said it before. It was just a harmless question, IMO your thread should be "Sticky"
I got to play around with discord and had my necro roommate bring 3 discord heroes too. I ran a water hex/snare build. all i have to say is to this date i have never seen Hard Mode enemies die so fast. 7 necros and 1 ele FTW

-Lotus- · Aug 20, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Then replace them with other skills. Res sigs are not good either.

what?... wait...... what?

just stop, your attempts to give advice are pathetic.